It seems that wet flow is the way to go these days. Don't know if I want to take on that set up right now. Does anyone use smoke anymore? I saw that someone on the old forum put a LED light on top of one of the baffle plates to light up an acrylic test bore. I mainly focus on 4 valve stuff and thought that using this set up might help show tumble. I am curious what peoples thoughts on this are.
Shane
Does anyone use smoke anymore?
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SWAirflowServices
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Does anyone use smoke anymore?
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S2Z
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Re: Does anyone use smoke anymore?
Hello Shane,
Actually that's a great question, but I see that there have been 0 replies.
I have been contemplating the same, and was thinking of using an electronic fog machine to generate the "smoke".
I think that at a minimum, that the "smoke" is denser than just "dry" air, so there may be an advantage especially when visuallizing the flow.
I think I will do a test and see if the number are dramatically different...
I've also been thinking about creating a clear acrylic reciprocating assy to simulate what happens during piston movement, taping it with a High Speed Video Camera...
my $0.02 worth...
Actually that's a great question, but I see that there have been 0 replies.
I have been contemplating the same, and was thinking of using an electronic fog machine to generate the "smoke".
I think that at a minimum, that the "smoke" is denser than just "dry" air, so there may be an advantage especially when visuallizing the flow.
I think I will do a test and see if the number are dramatically different...
I've also been thinking about creating a clear acrylic reciprocating assy to simulate what happens during piston movement, taping it with a High Speed Video Camera...
my $0.02 worth...
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jfholm
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Re: Does anyone use smoke anymore?
Those are good ideas as it would be nice to see how it acts in a cylinder with a reciprocating piston. Two things though you will have to vent the smoke out or you will fill the room in a hurry. Also if you vent the air out it can create a negative pressure in the room and actually pop the drywall off the walls.
One other thing to consider is at 6000 RPM the piston goes up and down 600 times a second. I would love to see that but do not think I could reproduce that.
Now this video may be of interest to you. Pictures from the inside of an actual running engine. You will notice that it looks to be a three valve engine. Also notice that part of the cycle is missing and then ask why?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 613&hl=en#
John
One other thing to consider is at 6000 RPM the piston goes up and down 600 times a second. I would love to see that but do not think I could reproduce that.
Now this video may be of interest to you. Pictures from the inside of an actual running engine. You will notice that it looks to be a three valve engine. Also notice that part of the cycle is missing and then ask why?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 613&hl=en#
John
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1960FL
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Re: Does anyone use smoke anymore?
Wow love the subject! Been a while since i scored a good bud and lit one up 
Sorry could not help myself, I think smoke is a great tool and if you can vent your bench to fresh air it will give great information, Black light should enhance the images. I am not 100% sold on wet flow with H20 as the SG is so far off, but don't tell Chris i said this.
The DIY forum is all about trying testing and learning go for it.
Rick
PS, i will look in the old forum to if i can find the thread.
Sorry could not help myself, I think smoke is a great tool and if you can vent your bench to fresh air it will give great information, Black light should enhance the images. I am not 100% sold on wet flow with H20 as the SG is so far off, but don't tell Chris i said this.
The DIY forum is all about trying testing and learning go for it.
Rick
PS, i will look in the old forum to if i can find the thread.
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SSR
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Re: Does anyone use smoke anymore?
It's a real shame the vid in Johns post has part of the cycle missing. John, are you asking why because you have a theory?
The bit that is missing is very annoying as it would have been during valve overlap and (if the clip is genuine and there was overlap) it would have been interesting to see if any of the mixture went out through the exhaust port.
I would be really interested in the history of this footage! It is a 4 valve chamber, but why when the two ex valves on the left are fully open does the port or valve seat for the valve furthest away seem to vanish? You cannot see it over the top of the nearest valve. I get the feeling that there is much more to this one than meets the eye......
I did some smoke testing just recently, I will search out my pics and post them up if anyone is interested, they are (for now) just at the port entrance, but it was useful to see how all the smoke was pulled together into the centre of the port. This was kind of linked with my train of thought which resulted in the question of why you guys have so many rectangular ports when the corners seem to be just wasted....
A nice clear acrylic head would be good, I have a very good silicone rubber inlet port mould I can utilise, I will just need to make an exhaust one to go with it, I can see my project for this weekend being making a mould box too......
The bit that is missing is very annoying as it would have been during valve overlap and (if the clip is genuine and there was overlap) it would have been interesting to see if any of the mixture went out through the exhaust port.
I would be really interested in the history of this footage! It is a 4 valve chamber, but why when the two ex valves on the left are fully open does the port or valve seat for the valve furthest away seem to vanish? You cannot see it over the top of the nearest valve. I get the feeling that there is much more to this one than meets the eye......
I did some smoke testing just recently, I will search out my pics and post them up if anyone is interested, they are (for now) just at the port entrance, but it was useful to see how all the smoke was pulled together into the centre of the port. This was kind of linked with my train of thought which resulted in the question of why you guys have so many rectangular ports when the corners seem to be just wasted....
A nice clear acrylic head would be good, I have a very good silicone rubber inlet port mould I can utilise, I will just need to make an exhaust one to go with it, I can see my project for this weekend being making a mould box too......
Hello stalker!
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Flash
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Re: Does anyone use smoke anymore?
I tried the smoke idea with a smoke machine that left traces of die(used to fine fuel vapor leaks in automobiles)
It worked......but i couldn't understand what it was showing me, and unable to produce a picture of what i saw with my black light, to post up for help...........I gave up on the idea
It worked......but i couldn't understand what it was showing me, and unable to produce a picture of what i saw with my black light, to post up for help...........I gave up on the idea
Gordon
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blaktopr
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Re: Does anyone use smoke anymore?
Do you guys really think that all that stuff in the wetflow section happened at the first shot 
Don't give up, keep working at it. I have my own ideas/opinions about this subject and what was posted. But I want you guys to continue on to see if something comes of it. Without me scewing anybody's thought process.
My first test, where it started in 08.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuPL-nAgzfM
Don't give up, keep working at it. I have my own ideas/opinions about this subject and what was posted. But I want you guys to continue on to see if something comes of it. Without me scewing anybody's thought process.
My first test, where it started in 08.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xuPL-nAgzfM
Chris Sikorski
Chris@wetflowtech.com
Totallywirednow.com
Chris@wetflowtech.com
Totallywirednow.com
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jfholm
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Re: Does anyone use smoke anymore?
I have watched that in cylinder video over and over and find so much with it interesting. I don't know it they just stop it there cause you just can't see anything anymore or what. I am wondering also if it is just the same cycle played over and over and not actually different firings. I would still like to see it go through the over lap cycle.
Some interesting things to watch is the spark on the plug itself. Also watch the fuel coming in and how it sputters at the end of the intake cycle and the beginning of the intake. If you hit the pause button as it goes through the cycle it is interesting what you can see.
I would also like to set up wet flow like Chris has done.
John
Some interesting things to watch is the spark on the plug itself. Also watch the fuel coming in and how it sputters at the end of the intake cycle and the beginning of the intake. If you hit the pause button as it goes through the cycle it is interesting what you can see.
I would also like to set up wet flow like Chris has done.
John
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SWAirflowServices
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Re: Does anyone use smoke anymore?
It's funny that you say that. I just had this discussion with the guy who taught me to port. People are always so focused on CFM and Velocity and I don't really see people talking much on the fact that not only does the valve close each cycle and completely shut off the flow but also that the piston accelerates the flow and decelerates it as well.jfholm wrote:Also watch the fuel coming in and how it sputters at the end of the intake cycle and the beginning of the intake. If you hit the pause button as it goes through the cycle it is interesting what you can see.
John
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SSR
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Re: Does anyone use smoke anymore?
I think the clip is lots of still photos put together and yes it is the same played over and over. The engine is probably fuel injection if it acts like that.jfholm wrote:I have watched that in cylinder video over and over and find so much with it interesting. I don't know it they just stop it there cause you just can't see anything anymore or what. I am wondering also if it is just the same cycle played over and over and not actually different firings. I would still like to see it go through the over lap cycle.
Some interesting things to watch is the spark on the plug itself. Also watch the fuel coming in and how it sputters at the end of the intake cycle and the beginning of the intake. If you hit the pause button as it goes through the cycle it is interesting what you can see.
I would also like to set up wet flow like Chris has done.
John
This clip is all over the place when you start to look deeper, this one here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iz31eCym2iQ&NR=1
Says it came from Doorman77 on 'Liveleak', this guy is all over the 'net too, even on Twitter (I'm not!), haha, I felt like a stalker when I was searching around after him...
Hello stalker!